That awkward moment you realize that some readers find you too porn-y for the Porn Battle

[zouzounaki]

And you could give less than of a fuck

Seriously, though, if it's the slightly erotic that floats your boat, fine (though it is the Porn Battle, I've written my share of suggestive--and by my standards, that's still middling-graphic, heh, but, ya know, whatevs) but the backhanded snarking? Nah, man! We're doing this for fun, y u hate?

Comments

[moetushie]

This isn't a Mild Eroticism Skirmish!


But seriously, Jean, don't let the haters get you down. You are amazing!

[zouzounaki]

HA! I'mma steal that now! xD

Thank you, bb! HUGS!

[lion_heart]

Who snarked!? Because, yeah, don't change a thing you're doing. It's the hawtness and should remain so. ;)

[zouzounaki]

Backatcha, babes! We talked about it before and just... yeah. I think it's just a... cumulative snark, LOL! Old wounds and all that, and deciding that I'm FAB-u-lous and I'mma dance like Bobby-Bob, like I just don't care! :D

[lion_heart]

Ah see, I had thought it was something newer, that someone had flamed you in some way. But no, I see. And yeah, you have to not care. And I understand, you need to celebrate telling them to stick it. :D

[zouzounaki]

I'm actually trying not to read too many other comments. I was really on a kick with it, trying to figure out what these readers wanted and just decided, nah, why do that to myself? (I'm such a masochist sometimes!) Maybe there's all kinds of snark going on, LOL! I think it was the surprising (oh, ego, how you work on me sometimes!) lack of comments on even my fairy tales that brought old wounds (coughNarniaincidentcough) a-callin. And that's why I can't go for that! xD

[lion_heart]

I do the same thing, so you shouldn't feel bad. I try to notice trends. I try to imagine what fandom will be at the forefront of people's minds because it's "in" at the moment. Because you want to play with the popular kids. We all do. But at some point, I find myself working too hard and not having fun, and that defeats the purpose. But I get that mindset, I really do.

[theleaveswant]

Bwah?

[zouzounaki]

Oh, it's a long story, but there's always someone who makes a comment about the "crass" or "graphic" stuff they don't like, turning their noses up at it, or how they don't like sex in a fandom I've just written teh pr0ns in (oh, how I hold onto a grudge, LOL!) and there's a certain point, every time, I have to sit down and tell myself how FAB my friends and I are--with all our delicious porns! :D

[theleaveswant]

They're leaving those comments on the Porn Battle? That is, I think, a rather heinous example of point-missing in action. Porn Battle is where we encourage each other to crack open an id and fry it on the skillet of the Internet and then smear our faces in the glistening yolk, that is what it is for. It is not, as your friend above said, a Mild Eroticism Skirmish. Not everybody has to read or write or enjoy any particular thing, but kvetching about stuff being too "graphic", buddy, this is not the place so just keep rollin'.

(. . . I may have had too much sugar, and probably not enough sleep.)

[zouzounaki]

Too much sugar and not enough sleep is basically my state of (higher) constant being, so I feel ya!

Preach it! Spank it, spank it! (Wow, waaaay too little sleep for me, LOL!)

THAT is from the person who runs it all. Not that I don't like there being a spectrum; like you said, you like it, you read it. But it feels like encouragement for the people who turn their noses up at the hardcore stuff. The prize this year goes to the comment that lion_heart got about hers not being "crass." She said to me, "Sometimes I am. I wrote what seemed appropriate for the fandom." Meh. Sometimes ya just gotta dance like ya just don't care! Hence: the gif above! xD

[lion_heart]

Just popping in to say that the weirdest thing about being congratulated for not being "crass" is it makes you MORE self-conscious about what you're writing. It has for me anyway. I know, I know... why do that to myself? But it made me feel nervous about writing something more down and dirty for the same couple, which I kind of wanted to. Boy, I wonder what they'd think then, LOL!

[zouzounaki]

HUGS! I know, bb, and it makes me want to punch them extra-badly because they robbed me of some more wicked Eowyn/Faramir pr0ns! Fneh. You knows I want to read all about Eowyn and a riding crop, haw!

[lion_heart]

Oh, I'm not down for the count necessarily! It might still happen. But I got most of my really good ideas out early. That happens. Now I have to let things simmer and collect again. I'm just not sure if I have time to let it happen!

[theleaveswant]

. . . huh. The comment from oxoniensis doesn't really bother me because it's trying to make more people feel welcome without showing favouritism, and I appreciate that (I don't know if you know anything about kink_bingo but there's been an interesting process going on in the past couple of years of trying to make it clearer that g-rated works and works featuring asexual characters are totally welcome, because these things can still be totally kinky and explore kink[s] in fascinating ways and can still inspire or satisfy some kind of erotic craving even if that isn't necessarily 'sexual' for either characters or consumers, while mediating backlash from participants who feel like this 'waters down' the challenge or makes it harder for them to find whatever wonderful nasty stuff they're looking for), though I can understand how reading it as part of an aggregate of comments sneering at "crass" or "graphic" works more explicitly might feel like support for that position. The one congratulating lion_heart (hello!) for not being crass, though, that is an excellent example of the popular "I liked your story even though [X] is super gross (and you should, implicitly, be ashamed and stop liking/promoting it and write more stuff that I like instead)!" backhanded compliment ("I don't often read/enjoy [X]" or "I enjoyed this more than other [X] I've read is fine", but "I am so impressed with you writing [X] without making it horribly disgusting" is not so much), and again, context. Even more not the time or place than usual.

[lion_heart]

Hi! :) Liking this conversation and therefore making myself part of it!

And I agree totally with the weird, backhanded compliments. I have gotten the "Oh, I don't normally like this at all, but you write it so great!" Which feels nice. But also makes me feel like I don't know how to respond to that. "I'm... glad that I made you like something you hate?" It's a powerful compliment, but it also implies some odd things about disliking something I, as the writer, do like.

It's even stranger when you take something like story content into account. When someone says, like they did to me, that they appreciate it wasn't crass, and it feels like some snooty lady just walked up to me. Like she said, "oh, I'm so glad you're not like these OTHER PEOPLE." And I'm of a mind that I'm probably more like these other people that she knows, because I curse freely and like some good, old-fashioned porn in these fics sometimes. Like zouzounaki quoted me, I was just doing what felt right at the time. It's hard to convey that to a stranger reviewing a story without feeling like you're being argumentative.

[zouzounaki]

YES

My sister would call them church ladies, clutching at their pearls, even though she long ago stopped reading what I write because it's a little too hardcore for her, LOL!

[theleaveswant]

:D Seems like an appropriate parallel--and pretty much all you can do to help the people who get shamed and silenced by comments like that, whether or not you're one of them, is to step up and show your support, when circumstances allow (there are more of us than you suspect).

[zouzounaki]

Oh no, I know that oxoniensis has only ever tried to make everyone welcome, which is a wonderful thing; her comment was sweet and supportive of someone who was unsure of themselves! I have a very good friend in muselives (who hasn't posted yet--ooh, I have to get on her ass about that, LOL) and she tends toward PG-13 and PG-rated stuff, drabbles mostly, and can knock out some immensely beautiful and provocative prose. I was a part of a Yahoo!Group a long time ago when there were relevant Yahoo!Groups (ah, olden days--I miss it!) for the Hornblower fandom and the admin started getting really bitchy about the PG material, tried to created another group to sort of segregate it, and caused bad feelings all around, making the more romantically minded feel like they weren't welcome and making the hard-corers feel a bit like... raving pervs, LOL. Because that takes away a middle ground, and a spectrum can lead to so many fun and interesting things! As well as supporting everyone's individual tastes (I'm the person who tries to comment and support everyone, because I give. I'm a giver! :D)

So it's doubly disappointing to see people participating taking that stance of 'wow, that wasn't half as gross as I was expecting it to be!' or 'There's been so much gross written for this [whatever], this was such a nice surprise!' NO SOUP FOR THEM! People can bitch about me all they want, LOL, but the way they do it so openly boggles, occasionally. I've had one comment aimed directly at me (without naming me, but obvious) in a past battle, and that just left me... dunno. more confused than anything, like, 'who would do that?' I get particularly defensive about my friends, though. I am a fierce friend! :D

I think I took a lot of baggage away from that Hornblower fanfic group, unfortunately. Especially because, in that instance, I got personally involved. Oy, so many issues, I need a magazine rack! xD

All of your examples: perfect! That's... exactly it; you hit the nail on the head and I wrote a huge reply just to say: YEESSSSSSSS. Yes to all of this!

[theleaveswant]

What you say about taking away the middle ground, yes! Absolutely! As if there's no room for shared enjoyment and no one who falls in both camps or likes to hop back and forth between them.

I guess Porn Battles (this is the first one I've participated in as a writer as well as a casual peruser) are a big enough deal or attract people from enough divergent branches of fandom that it's hard to get users all playing by the same rules or etiquette, and as drama goes it could get a lot worse, but it would be nice if "live and let porn" and "if you can't say anything nice, keep scrolling" were more widely adhered to.

(bah, replied in wrong place)

[dancewithoutyou]

Sorry for the drive-by, but I saw you like Being Human. I don't know how you feel about fic memes, but I'm hosting one here, if you enjoy them.